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- Date: Sat, 4 Jun 94 04:30:11 PDT
- From: Ham-Policy Mailing List and Newsgroup <ham-policy@ucsd.edu>
- Errors-To: Ham-Policy-Errors@UCSD.Edu
- Reply-To: Ham-Policy@UCSD.Edu
- Precedence: Bulk
- Subject: Ham-Policy Digest V94 #237
- To: Ham-Policy
-
-
- Ham-Policy Digest Sat, 4 Jun 94 Volume 94 : Issue 237
-
- Today's Topics:
- Legal Protections for Hams (2 msgs)
-
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-
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- (by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/ham-policy".
-
- We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
- herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
- policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 22:08:51 GMT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news1.oakland.edu!rcsuna.gmr.com!kocrsv01!news@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: Legal Protections for Hams
- To: ham-policy@ucsd.edu
-
- In <Cqtq3s.Fu1@ss3.magec.com>, pegood@ss3.magec.com (Peter E. Goodmann) writes:
- > [...]
- >On a VERRRRRY loosly related subject, how about eliminating the
- >"industrial exemption" clause in your state's engineering registration law?
- >These exemptions, which most if not all states have, allow unlicensed
- >"engineers (who may not even have any engineering education or experience)
- >to practice as engineers as long as they only design manufactured goods. Would
- >you allow an unlicensed physician, who can only kill one person at a time to
- >practice medicine? How abount an unlicensed automtive "engineer" who could
- >kill many people with a single mistake?
- >
-
- I'm not very comfortable with the concept of "licensing" people to do work.
-
- If somebody is good at programming and I think that person is capable and
- responsible, I should be able to get computer programs from that person
- regardless of whether a license to practice has been issued.
-
- (Now change computers to people and read that paragraph again:)
-
- If somebody is good at medicine and I think that person is capable and
- responsible, I should be able to get medical care from that person
- regardless of whether a license to practice has been issued.
-
- However, I'd be very happy if some trustworthy organization had a set of
- standards for "certifying" people. If my doctor friend were certified by,
- say, the A.M.A. as a capable general practicioner, that would be great.
- Imagine the A.M.A.'s "public service" announcements: "Make sure you're
- being treated by an A.M.A.-certified physician!" Malpractice insurance
- providers could base their rates on levels of certification.
-
- And the S.A.E. could certify people as skilled automotive engineers without
- some regulatory body preventing "unlicensed" people from working. A company
- might choose not to hire an "uncertified worker", but government regulations
- shouldn't have to enter into it.
-
- =============================================================================
- Alan Anderson || If they put a bunch of cattle in orbit,
- (Ham Radio WB9RUF) || would it be the herd shot 'round the world?
- My views may not necessarily be those of Delco Electronics or its management.
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 3 Jun 1994 23:27:21 GMT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!news.hal.COM!olivea!ncd.com!newshost.ncd.com!sheridan.ncd.com!stevew@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: Legal Protections for Hams
- To: ham-policy@ucsd.edu
-
- In article <Cqtq3s.Fu1@ss3.magec.com>, pegood@ss3.magec.com (Peter E. Goodmann) writes:
- |> -How about protection from lawsuits related to TVI, telephone interference,
- |> and other forms of RFI caused by poorly designed consumer products and/or
- |> Part 15 devices operating on frequencies assigned to the Amateur service?
-
- I see a couple of problems with the above.
-
- First, consider that the state doesn't have any authority in the areas of
- TVI, RFI, or the design quality of consumer goods. The original poster is
- running for a STATE legilature. (FCC has authority for all of the above,
- and has claimed such will through federal preemption of same.)
-
- The second problem I see with the statement Pete made is the assumption that
- these consumer goods are "poorly designed." Such goods are designed to meet
- specific standards put in place by FCC, et al. Part of what I use as a
- working description of a good design is whether the product does the required
- job for the cheapest manufacturing cost. From this point of view, designing
- in protective circuitry to eliminate interfernce from an amateur radio station
- as an example, isn't required, would make the product cost higher, and therefore,
- doesn't meet the metric I mentioned!
-
- This isn't to say that I wouldn't like to see such protective circuitry in
- consumer electronics. The reality of being a designer in the consumer world
- is that these protections AREN'T required, and consequently aren't there. The
- place to go bang on is either Congress, or the FCC who DOES have the authority
- to mandate such design practices. You simply aren't going to see them there
- until it is mandatory. I guess my main points are that the original poster
- isn't in a place to help, and the designers aren't the ones to blame.
-
- Lastly, part 15 devices are allowed to run on Amateur service frequencies
- due to FCC policy. Again, this is the place where any corrections are going
- to start, though I doubt such will ever occur. ARRL DID comment about
- possible interference when the new part 15 rules were adopted. Their comments
- fell on deaf ears.
-
- |> On a VERRRRRY loosly related subject, how about eliminating the
- |> "industrial exemption" clause in your state's engineering registration law?
- |> These exemptions, which most if not all states have, allow unlicensed
- |> "engineers (who may not even have any engineering education or experience)
- |> to practice as engineers as long as they only design manufactured goods. Would
- |> you allow an unlicensed physician, who can only kill one person at a time to
- |> practice medicine? How abount an unlicensed automtive "engineer" who could
- |> kill many people with a single mistake?
- |>
- |> Thanks, and good luck!!
- |>
- |> 73,
- |> Pete Goodmann, P.E., NI9N
- |>
- |>
-
- Responding to the above is the REAL reason I'm posting! Pete, as soon as
- a PE license has RELEVANT material, i.e. tests me on items that are relevant
- to design field I'm in, then I'll consider going and getting a PE. Currently,
- the PE is an absolutely USELESS piece of paper for me and at the same time has
- NO bearing on the field I'm in. If I were designing bridges or buildings this
- wouldn't be true, but the current test structure in CA doesn't come close to
- being relevant to computer design! For instance, there just isn't that much
- need to apply fluid flow theory to designing a new PC. I need to know about
- computer architecture, computer languages, functionality available in current
- logic families, compatibility between logic families, EMI, RFI considerations,
- etc. Most of the above ISN'T covered on the PE last time I looked. The fact
- is that they would ask me things that I forgot soon after I graduated that have
- no bearing on what I see as a practicing engineer in a commercial setting.
- Consequently, the test does NOTHING to insure that I am competant to practice
- in my particular specialty.
-
- So, to answer your question...Would I want an unlicensed automotive "engineer"
- to design the vehicle I'm riding in... I suspect I already am ;-) So, I guess
- I wouldn't mind! Certainly, there have been vehicle recalls over the years
- due to design mistakes, but if memory serves, alot of these were due to
- management decisions, not engineering decisions, i.e. the design flaw was
- discovered, but management swept the issue under the rug. Happens all the time.
- How would a "licensed" engineering staff have made a difference here?
-
- __
- Steve Wilson, KA6S - PE ;-)
-
- ------------------------------
-
- End of Ham-Policy Digest V94 #237
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